ORAL HISTORY RECORDING
ACCESSION NUMBER: S00422
TITLE:
INTERVIEWEE: HAROLD FREEMAN
INTERVIEWER: ELIZABETH BURNESS
RECORDING DATE:
RECORDING LOCATION:
SUMMARY:
TRANSCRIBER: C L SOAMES
TRANSCRIPTION DATE: JUNE 2002
START OF TAPE ONE - SIDE A
Identification: This is an interview between Mr Harold Freeman who, we believe, is the last survivor of the HMAS Sydney and the German Emden conflict, and Mrs Elizabeth Burness, Education Officer, Australian War Memorial. The conflict took place off the Cocos Islands in November 1914; it was Australia's first naval fight and Australia's first victory in the Great War.
Mr Freeman, are you from Sydney?
I am from Sydney - 54 Park Road, St Peters.
Was it true that the boys on the [Tingarra], did they come from just this area?
Oh, no, they come from anywhere at all. As a matter of fact, when I left school ...
What age were you then?
I'd be about fourteen.
Fourteen, right.
In those days you used to look forward to fourteen, you could leave school.
But I don't know how I came about it, but I was looking for a job and I went down to Margaret Street Wharf. I was looking for a job aboard a ship, I don't know why I did that because none of my (family) had ever been seamen at all. I went down there and my first job was on the [Micura], the Australian-New Zealand Shipping Company. The man in charge of the what's a name in sydney - like where the ships belong to Sydney - his name was Rabbits. I was warned there not to call him bunny - bunny Rabbits.
I got the job there, they gave me like a messenger boy - the Micura used to go to Vancouver - it belonged to the New Zealand Shipping Company, the officer was down in Margaret Street. My first job was like a messenger boy until the Micura came in. When she came in - they were decommissioned every time and you'd go down and re-enlist. I went down there expecting to - I thought, when the ship paid off, that all I had to do when the ship was ready again, I'd just go down, my name was in there. But instead of that you've got to ask for your job. Just because I hadn't put my application in they made a job for me - I was in the second-class saloon in the first place, when I first joined up, washing up dishes.
And you were fourteen, washing up dishes?
Washing up dishes, yeah, in the pantry. You'd get the ... the galley used to be further along, and you'd get those in, and the [pantomime] would come to ... serve all the ... get all the things around, and the waiters would go and distribute to the passengers. As they got the dirty plates in they had to be put in a big sink there, and I had to wash them up.
But any rate, that was my first job, washing up dishes on the Micura. the Australian-New Zealand Shipping Company - it used to have a red funnel with a black top on them.
How did you get onto the Tingarra then?
When I went down I made up with the quarterdeck man on the Micura, and said I wanted to get onto a sailing ship - I don't know why, but I wanted to get onto a sailing ship, be a proper sailor. At any rate, he gave me a letter of introduction to Inspector [McClain], the Inspector of Police - he had something to do with the shipping or something like that. At any rate, there was no vacancies so I went then down to lower George Street - in those days they had compulsory training - do you remember that?
Oh, that's right, I did hear about that, yes.
Compulsory training, you get up there and do your training, like military and things like that, like ...
Cadets, wasn't it?
Like a boy scouts sort of thing, but it's in the military. I never made an application to be discharged when I went on the Micura with the result that when I came back from Sydney my dad said that I'd got a letter from the recruiting officer - from the area officer - why I didn't attend drill, and explained to them that I was overseas in the shipping company. There's a picture there.
What about you then on the Tingarra. Once they got you on there, what did they teach you?
I'll tell you in a minute. But it was lower George Street, when they had no vacancies I went down to the recruiting office down on lower George Street. I made an application down there for it and I had to get my area book down from the boy scouts sort of thing, in the recruiting office, and I had to go and get my record book from there and take it down to the recruiting officer down in lower George Street.
At any rate, when I went up there to get that he said, 'Why didn't you come to me for it?' I said, 'Why?' He said, 'Because I lost a quid over you' - they used to get a quid for anybody transferred over from the compulsory training into the Navy.
Oh, really.
Yeah, he got a quid for every trooper he got.
That would have been a lot in those days.
Yeah. At any rate, he said, 'I lost a quid over you', and I said, 'That's all very well. My father got a summons because I wasn't attending drill.' At any rate, I had to take me book down there, just to see if me drill was all up to date, and things like that. I made up with the quarterdeck man and that's why I went down to the recruiting office about going on Sydney.
At any rate, I had to get this book and then they gave me an education test. They got a newspaper and read out something from the newspaper, and I had to write it down. That was my education test.
That was it?
Doctor Bernard used to be up in Macquarie Street, you had to go up there and be examined. Then - I forget now how we came - but there were three of us went, they picked up three of us and went down to Rose Bay, then went on the Tingarra from there. We were put in different classes, I was Number 17 Class. A Petty Officer [Jarrit] was in charge of our boys - I forget now who ... ship it was, why I can't find those discharge papers. Then you go through your seamanship, knots and splices, and all those things ...
Yes, that's right.
... cut splicing and back splicing, all those. Then we used to go up to Lyons Park for your drilling - slope arms and all the rest of it.
Did they give you guns?
Oh, yes, we used to have the .303s. We used to go out to Long Bay Rifle Range for your rifle (drill).
Oh, all the boys off the Tingarra?
At any rate, then, when you finished all your tasks on the Tingarra then you are ready then for a seagoing ship.
Well, in the seagoing ship there was the Australia, Melbourne, Sydney, the Yarra and Parramatta was our fleet in those days.
Anyway, on the Tingarra, while we were waiting for that, diphtheria broke out.
Really?
Yeah. We were in North Head Quarantine Station, we had to get instructions every morning and things like that, but I had diphtheria, I got a dose of it.
Your throat closed up, yes.
At any rate, when you are passed the doctor there then we had to go back to the ship. Well, the ship, she was being quarantined to get all the germs out. We went down to Portsea Quarantine Station in Melbourne. The draft, we were ready for a seagoing ship, we'd had instruction to get in the morning, before noon; in the afternoon we could go out into the bush. We used to go out in the bush getting possums.
That's not too bad at all. How many boys were there on the Tingarra?
Altogether, oh ... I forget now how many, there must have been ...
About fifty, sixty, boys?
There would be more than that.
Because it was a full training ship, wasn't it?
Yeah, full training ship, yeah. There would be about twelve in each mess. There was two boys, Harvey, they were from Western Australia, they were recruiting from there. Then there was two more twins by the name of Greggor - Bruce and Wallis Greggor. Their father used to be the sergeant of police in Parramatta back in those days. Of course, they are all gone.
When the Sydney and Melbourne came around to the fleet, we were on the [Ossober], we were brought back to Sydney and we were transferred from the Ossober - fifty-three to the Australia, fifty-three to Melbourne and fifty-three to Sydney.
That's right, yes. You were just transferred or did you have to enlist?
Oh, no, no, no, you'd finished your training and you were waiting around for a seagoing ship.
Oh, I see, okay.
That's when I joined the Sydney. There was fifty-three, as I say, went to the Australia, fifty-three to Melbourne, and fifty-three to the Sydney. That was when the fleet came out then, 19 ...
1908 or something.
No, 1913, was it?
'13, right.
And you know these manoeuvres where they are down Jervis Bay now?
Yes.
Military manoeuvres. We went on manoeuvres up to Queensland, up to Bounty Bay.
I've heard of that, yes.
Bounty Bay was more or less our depot up there and we used to do the manoeuvres from up there. At any rate, on 3 August Captain Glossop had us clear lower deck, everybody out, and he told us then that there was something doing between England and Germany.
I remember that, yes.
He said, 'I haven't got anything official yet; when I get everything official we'll let you know.'
At any rate, on 4 August 1914 began clear lower deck, everybody out. Captain Glossop said, 'We are now at war with Germany', and that was 4 August 1914. Germany, German New Guinea, and all that, they had the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau was their two big warships out here - the Emden was auxiliary with them. They were at German New Guinea and they were more or less protecting the German colonies down here, out in Australia.
At any rate, we went out there, we left at four o'clock in the afternoon - afternoon tea at four o'clock - the Sydney, with the Yarra and the Parramatta, we had to go up to Rabaul and as we went past the Melbourne they gave us three cheers, you know.
At any rate, we were laying out there with our stern facing into the harbour. The idea was that the Yarra and Parramatta (were) to go into Rabual Harbour and get the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau to slip their cables - do you know what that means? They'd just slip their cables over and get to sea. We had to lead them back, get them to chase us, take them back to the Australia and Melbourne. But we were almost twenty-four hours late; when we got the information that they were in the harbour, every time they went twenty-four hours beforehand.
Apparently - I don't know whether they got away or not, I don't know, to get the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. But any rate, the first convoy, going up to the Middle East, there was thirty-eight ships altogether. We were sent down to Sydney, to Garden Island, we had a quick four-day refit. And then we had to go around to Western Australia and pick up that convoy of thirty-eight ships, and escort them back to the Middle East.
As I say, the Melbourne was in charge at the head of the convoy with the Sydney on the port beam, and the SS Minotaur - I'm not sure whether that's a Japanese ship or an English ship - on the starboard beam.
At any rate, when they got the signal through from Cocos Island about the strange warship - why they sent a strange warship, as I say, they knew the Sydney and Melbourne was four-funnelled, and they couldn't recognise what this strange warship was. But the Emden had this dummy funnel up, and with four funnels.
Well, when the Emden saw - we were sent then to the Cocos Island - and the Emden, that put two boats' crew ashore on Cocos Island to destroy the wireless station. When the Emden saw the smoke from our funnels, he dropped everything, left those two boats' crew - they had eleven ashore - and they come out to meet us. Luckily for us, we didn't know at the time, but there was two - we were laying over a minefield.
Really?
Yeah - and something went wrong with the wiring otherwise we would have been blown up.
At any rate, when the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, whether they went back to Germany, I forget now what happened to those. But we were sent down to escort that first convoy of thirty-eight ships - there was two New Zealand ships and the rest were Australian ships with their equipment and so forth. There were thirty-eight ships altogether. We had to escort those out, pick them up at Fremantle, and meet that convoy to take them to the Middle East. So the Emden, she was somewhere there - I forget now - oh, she had to leave the boats' crew to come out to meet us.
At any rate, we went to Cocos Island. When the Emden saw it, of course, she got out because she'd be a sitting duck there. The - I forget now - at any rate, she opened fire, she opened up at 10,000 yards. What we didn't know, see, in the Navy they have all the ranges of all the different ships (i.e. range of their guns), Germany and different nations, and the Emden's official range, as far as we knew, was 10,000 yards. Well, she opened up at 10,000 yards and went over us so we didn't know what her range was. At any rate, then they reduced their range; well, of course, we picked up the range there. As I say, I was down on the central ammunition works on the telephone in case anything went - follow the point of instruments on the Navy - they have these sights set on their guns, they've got to keep those points together to get the range.
You were only sixteen, weren't you?
I was fifteen and four months.
Sitting up there with your earphones on.
Kneeling down behind this ammunition (inaudible) because they had to get the stokers off watch. They used to have a hoist there, from the magazine - there was two magazines, one underneath the fore-bridge and the other one down on the quarterdeck. The quarterdeck magazines were for the two guns down there and the quarterdeck gun, and we had to keep them supplied with the ammunition. But they had these Number 2 Starboard, they had five rounds of cordite on the starboard side against the funnel casing, and the action was more or less on the port side nearly all the time. [Lambert] used to be the gun layer of Number 2 Port, and [Newman] was the gun layer of the quarterdeck gun, I think it was. At any rate, I'll tell you about that afterwards.
At any rate, when we came round to Sydney - there was fifty-three of us, as I say, to the Melbourne and Australia, we were doing these manoeuvres up off (the) Queensland coast. When we got ... we were up there when war broke out, we had to take Rabaul. That's why Germany - do you get the Mirror?
Oh, no.
I generally get the Australia Page in the Mirror, anything pertaining to Navy or anything like that, I generally ... got that collection somewhere, and anything pertaining I generally put them in this folder.
I went through a torpedo course - (I was) an active torpedo man on the ship.
What that on the Sydney you did the torpedo (course)?
On the Sydney, yeah - an active torpedo man. After I'd gone through my training there to able seaman, so I put in for a torpedo man - you know the torpedos?
Yes.
I used to be Number 4 on the submerged chute - it's on the sluice-valve door. On the torpedo they've got like two things on the side there, on the bars. You'd open the sluice-valve door on the ship's side - I learnt how to open that - and the bar, that would be put out on the ship's side, and the torpedo would be loaded into that to take it out, to clear the ship's side, because you could imagine what would happen if a torpedo got in the wash of the ship, she could turn around and blow your own ship up.
Blow you up, yes.
But that would go with an air blast to blow them out to the ship's side because you couldn't use anything that's submerged. The torpedo then would be out beyond the ship's side - the propellers, there used to be a little thing like that, when they go out, pop down open, start the propellers going on the torpedo. Your propellers would be going so that when they got out the ship's side it would drop off the bar and take out on your target.
This was some time after the Sydney-Emden, wasn't it?
Well, no, the Sydney-Emden, that was when we ... that was out in the blue tent, wasn't it.
Yes.
We were closed up at our torpedo stations down below with the guns firing up top. But any rate, during the action I was up on the communications on those ...
Yes, you were up on the top.
Yeah, on the deck.
Were you frightened up there?
Well, not exactly, as kids we weren't worried about being frightened, I don't think, because there was too much going on.
But when they opened fire I was on these communications in case (inaudible) instruments went crook, I had to call out the rangers - lucky for me they didn't.
But any rate, the shells were going over my head - whiz-whiz-whiz, all the time - and that's when we got the casualties on Number 2 Starboard. The sight-setter had lost half his foot, that was a chap by the name of Gascoine - he lost half his foot - and Whistle Bell was an ordinary seaman - one of the loading numbers - these shells are pretty heavy, about 100 pound shells - and they'd ram them up into the ship's side. And then the sights are put on a certain elevation and they'd fire them from the foretop, so the whole broadside would go together.
But after the shrapnel that killed the ... there was Paddy Lynch, was a gun layer, and Whistle Bell, the shrapnel tore up the deck behind me - I think they've got some of that deck over in [Snoker] Island.
What about Hoy? Tell me about Hoy.
Hoy, he was up on the monkey's island on the rangefinder. That's the one where the shell come down and took his right leg off.
And that's after he said he had two legs, wasn't it?
Oh, that was after that - before we got up to action station - yes, that was when we were steaming into Cocos Island. As I say, there was about half a dozen of us under the fore-bridge, having a smoke - I forget if I smoked then - and he said, 'Well, I've got two legs, they can have one' - and it was his right leg that the shell came down (on), a high trajectory on the fall-down, and took his leg off, and swerved down the space between the monkeys' island and the fore-bridge, only about that wide with a ladder going straight up.
Another shell went in front of the breakwater, underneath the boys' mess deck, and the wash of the sea coming over, my kit bag got full of water. As I said, this bit of shell, over [Snap] Island, was right in the middle of my trousers - you know, where you used to roll them up? That was [Snap] Island. I had it here for years until they said, well, it will only be lost, something like that, and I don't know what happened to it - oh, I know, those trousers, my father - my father got - had a stepmother - got married a second time - and I was in Prince Alfred Hospital when I broke my leg on the Tingarra.
That's right, yeah, you broke your leg.
I never got on with my grandmothers anyway. At that age he told me then, he said, 'Well, I told your grandmother that she can go now, I've got somebody else.' She had my surge trousers, she found them my (inaudible) in the corner of what they used to have in those days. When she saw all the holes in it she threw them out.
Oh, dear.
That was then. We used to go into Hobart, every Christmas time we would go there, we'd be in Hobart.
Did you have any special friends, special mates?
Yes, as a matter of fact ... oh, there are me discharge papers, I knew I had them somewhere.
Oh, look at that - now, that's old, very old.
With these, passed a doctor before you leave a ship and you passed a doctor again when you get to the other ship.
Gee, look at that, that is an old document - 1920 - you finished in 1920 on the Brisbane.
Yes, on the Brisbane, yes.
And you were a torpedo man there.
When we went to England to join the Grand Fleet in 1916, there was two of us went down to the [Vernon] to go to a torpedo course - acting torpedo man - but I was on the Vernon then to get through the torpedo course. I was a seaman torpedo man.
You joined the Sydney on 15 October 1913.
1913.
Yes, look at that - and you were on the Tingarra in November 19 ... that must be 1912.
1912.
And you were in the Vernon in ...
On the Vernon - that was ...
... 1916.
... the torpedo school down at Portsmouth.
Gee, look at that - and you were an able seaman. There's all your history in these discharge papers, everything is there.
All about it.
And did any fellows stay with you and go through with you, any of your special friends?
As a matter of fact, that one there was in the transport when I was coming back to Australia in 1916.
Oh, yes, look at you all, you are all very young. Oh, what a nice cat, and you've got such a nice picture. What was his name?
I forget now.
Cat.
That's the sort of seas we used to get in the winter in England - and then you'd put on your suit - in the winter in the North Sea.
And was that dark blue?
No, kind of khaki colour.
Oh, right, yes, doesn't show the dirt.
Have another picture. Now, even when we used to come in from these patrols in the North Sea, the seagulls used to know the cities of the Australian ships because we'd throw overboard what the English ships gave them and we eat them again, but as soon as we were coming in to harbour they'd come over and we used to throw the scraps to feed the seagulls.
That's a lovely picture.
That's our Christmas card there - that was taken up in Brisbane, when we used to illuminate ships - that was another ship - they had another one on the transport coming back in 1916. That was me up there, taken on the starboard side of the upper deck, maybe in the afternoon.
How did they treat you on the Sydney? Did they have good sleeping quarters and good food to eat?
Oh, yes, it was good feed, oh, yes, we used to have quite good feed - meat - on the Alexandria - they had refrigerators and everything like that.
And where did you sleep?
In hammocks.
All hammocks, eh?
Yeah - did you ever sleep in a hammock?
No, no, I haven't.
Well, a hammock, with your hammock you've got a horsehair mattress in it, and even in the North Sea, we'd only have two blankets in the North Sea. You'd hang it overhead, over the hammock bars - you'd see all the ... where we used to put our hammock bars on ... hammocks on those, and then you got your hammock lanyard to tie up to your hammock bars. Then the hammock itself - I forget now how many - canvas hammock - and you'd lash up and stow. You'd have a bit of the ships' company, about three-quarter inch rope, put an eye-splice in it, you put those in and over - seven turns on your hammock when you put them in the ... when all hands 'heave-ho' you know (inaudible) - that's the quartermaster, he'd come out. Then they'd lash our hammocks with our (inaudible), lash your hammock up and put it in the hammock bins. They had your name on the hammock bins, on each one.
Then the next one, you had to (inaudible) wash. We used not to have cups and saucers, we used to have a pint-and-a-half basin - basins, not cups and saucers. You'd have knives and forks, and you got each one - you've got to keep those in drawers in your mess deck. Then, when the cooks were doing the mess deck - you know, clearing the mess deck - the others were up on the upper deck scrubbing the decks with these ... On the wash-deck lockers there's a locker there about six foot long, and you'd have your hammock with an eye-splice on that, and lash up your hammock, and that's put in those bins. Then you [coke on wash] then when you are fall in, you fall in the different parts of the ship - your forecastle, foretop, main top, and quarterdeck man, you'd have parts of your ship. You'd fall in there and [Jimmy One], the military commander, he'd put the (inaudible) parties and ammunition parties, and they'd go away and the rest would go and scrub decks. You'd fall in for evening quarters - you'd fall in for inspection, in the white deck suits, and you'd be put into different parties for the ammunition ships and things like that. Then we'd put the ...
Oh, then, at half past eleven, the cooks in the galley, they'd go to the galley and get all the scram.
It was called scram.
Scram, yeah. And they'd go and set up your tables. Then at four o'clock - twelve o'clock - four o'clock's afternoon quarters, and seven o'clock is evening quarters.
Seven o'clock for dinner.
Inspectors all the time. It's such a long time ago I've forgotten all the routine really.
What time was the evening meal?
Four o'clock.
Four o'clock, the evening meal?
No, seven o'clock was your final meal, but afternoon quarters would be four o'clock.
What did you do at night for entertainment? After your dinner at seven ...
Yeah.
... what did you do then?
We'd have a novel or read, or something like that.
Oh, right, and you all be in, the boys, sort of with your hammocks?
Yeah. Yes, from afternoon quarters - that's four o'clock on till about seven you would more or less do any washing - [doughbian] they called it in the Navy.
[Doughbian], oh, right.
Then if you were not washing your clothes, didn't have any clothes to wash, you could read novels or anything like that - it was over the main hatch on the Tingarra. In those days, of course, a landlubber, if he was getting off his shelf - there was a shelf about that wide - and the proper way to get off that, you go down head first and hold it on, and your feet go right off and drop to the lower deck. Of course, being a land lubber I had to get down to scrub decks, I'd put my foot down first with the result I stripped - the lads were doing their doughbian on the upper deck, the soap all over the place - just underneath and I went on top of it and I broke my leg.
And that was on the Tingarra?
On the Tingarra. I hadn't been issued with me kit of clothes. In your kit you've got a pair of boots and a pair of shoes, two towels, a white duck suit like you wore ...
Your white sailor suit.
Yeah, with the collar on. The your Number 4 was - after four o'clock you fit into Number 4s, that's like a serge suit. You do your doughbian and hang it on these lines - you don't have clothes pegs, you have clothes stops. In all the things they had these clothes stops would be like bits of string, about that long, and they'd go in through that one and put one through the other, and hang them on the line.
Oh, I see, so you hung your clothes up by ropes?
Yeah. You'd hoist - we used to hang our clothes up and they'd be doughbian - I might have a picture in there, I'm not sure.
Oh, well. With your doughbian ...
Doughbian.
Doughbian.
Doughbian is doing your washing.
So that's after four o'clock, after your afternoon tea. Was discipline strict?
Oh, well, I expect we were used to discipline.
Well, the Tingarra would be pretty strict, wouldn't it?
Yeah.
Were there any boys that you remember as particular characters?
Well, as a matter of fact, some of them used to desert ship.
Really?
There was a ... no, that's after he went to sea, desert ship. One was out on the West Indian station and some of them got fed up with just doing patrols, and things like that, that they deserted ship and joined the British Army.
Really?
Yes, there was ... But any rate, there was the Hardys - I forget if the Hardys did it, but they deserted ship and ... they wanted to get to the front in the Army.
What happened? Did anybody pick them up?
They were picked up in England, I think, and sent back on board the ship. I forget now what happen to them.
They were twins, were they?
Twins, yeah - Bruce and Wallis Greggor - I remember their names - Hardys were another pair of twins too - I can't think what they ... they were from Melbourne - and Sheedy, Sheedy was another one, he was a Western Australian boy. As a matter of fact, I've got the picture there somewhere of the ... they were on the [Redrick] going back to Bermuda for their gunnery training, and the ship was torpedoed in the Irish Channel. That was Sheedy - there was two or three of them. We had a memorial card made - and I'm not sure whether I've got a picture of that here ... Melbourne.
Are they doing, what - boxing?
Boxing, yeah.
Did they do that often? Did they do that on your ship?
Yes, after afternoon tea.
They'd have boxing matches?
Yeah.
Did you ever do any dancing?
Not dancing, no.
No hornpipes?
No hornpipe, no. As a matter of fact, even in the Tingarra they used to let their hammocks down. They never let mine down because they said, 'Don't put your knees there, there's a broken leg.'
That was lucky, yes. Do you remember what you ate? Did they actually give you sort of meat and free vegies, and all that?
Oh, yes.
Was it good food?
Yeah. You'd have the meat from the galley, it was all cooked well.
And it was not just sausages or bully beef, or anything rotten like that?
Oh, no, it was all cooked stuff. The chief cook, he used to be doing out the afters - your pudding and things like that, and boiled rice, and things like that. The chief cook had a big ladle there with his big tub.
And sloshed out a lump of pudding.
Your sweets are called afters.
And did you get a tot of rum?
No, not in the Navy, not in the Australian Navy, we didn't get a tot of rum in the Navy. But when I went down to the Vernon to do that torpedo course I used to get me tot of rum there. I never drank, I never have drank, and I used to give that to somebody that would stand [sub] for me to go ashore.
Oh, well, that was alright, that was a good trade.
You'd get your doughbian done and things like that with a tot of rum.
Very good trade, yes.
That was on the Vernon. But I had the picture there of the memorial we had for this chap that went down ...
That's right, yes. Actually, on the Sydney, none of the boys were hit, were they?
The boys?
Yeah, none of them were casualties, were they?
Ah, no, not on the ...
Not on the Sydney-Emden.
Not on the Sydney, no. I've got a picture there of somebody, my mate, name of Truscott ... chap by the name of Truscott, and his sister was married to a chap by the name of Wallis. She lived down in [Chadford] Street in Lakemba. I've got the photograph of him with his sister taken after he came back from 1916. I've got them all down there somewhere, I can't place them.
Not to worry.
But the whole thing in the action, as I say, we were down on the [telepads] and follow a point of incidence. Even when we got the prisoners on board - did I tell you?
No.
But even when Captain Freidrick (actually Karl) von Muller, the captain of the Emden, when he came - a different war altogether in those days to what it is today - even when he brought him aboard the ship, up the officers' gangway, the skipper, Captain Glossop, had the chief quartermaster pipe him over the gangway - do you know what that is?
Yes, yes, the pipes.
Yeah, salute as they come over the gangway.
Isn't that great.
That's how they treated the prisoners in those days - different war altogether - a gentlemen's war, it was referred to as the gentlemen's war.
That's right.
And how we treated the prisoners, we had them down - it was damned hot - I had a fan there fanning the ...
END OF TAPE ONE - SIDE A
START OF TAPE ONE - SIDE B
That was how they used to treat the prisoners, treat them as ... looking after them. When we rejoined the convoy again they were transferred from the ship to the convoy, the prisoners of war and things like that.
Did any speak English?
Oh, yes, some of them used to be in the German ships down in Woolloomooloo.
Oh, really?
Yes, when the German ships used to come in, down in Woolloomooloo. They could speak English as well as us. That was some of the crew of the Emden.
Did they end up in Berrima gaol?
No, they went and joined the prison ships in England.
Oh, right, put them up there.
That was World War I. But any rate, I rejoined the Sydney in 1916 - that photograph there with the ... that was our badge.
Fantastic.
That one there is one of the fiftieth anniversary - I paid thirty-five bob for that, (inaudible) [Hordens].
Very hansom. That's when you finished with the Sydney?
That was when I came back from the North Sea, before I went down to Melbourne.
How many counties of the world did you visit when you were at sea?
In the Navy?
Yes.
Well, I was out in the West Indies for a year and eight months, and we were on patrol out there. I've been to [Illa] down the Mexican Gulf - been to Illa, that was Northern (inaudible) - you know between North and South America, it was round there - and Rabaul, German New Guinea, England, I've been to Tasmania, down there in the Navy. But it was out in the West Indies I was there all together a year and eight months - and Gibraltar, and Fiji - I've been to Fiji - 'sambula' is 'good day' - 'sambula banaka' - 'sambula man' - 'sambula marama' is 'good day woman'.
You remember it all.
Yes, sambula - 'sambula' is 'good day'. So if you see a Fijian, you say 'sambula' - you can say 'sambula' and he'll wonder where you come from - 'sambula banaka' is for the 'sambula man' and 'sambula marama' is 'good day woman'.
So once you were demobbed from the Brisbane, what happened to you then?
Well, when I came back - I'd gone down to Melbourne, on the Cerberus - that was a (inaudible) depot - and I was on draft then to the Encounter. Somebody told me that the Encounter was a cow of a ship to be in. I went up to the doctor, passed the doctor. He just only said, 'Are you alright?' I said, 'I've got a hernia' - I had a hernia from carrying these big bags of flower - 150 bags of flower and I had this hernia. He said, 'You can't go to a seagoing ship, you've got to have an operation or (be) put out of the Navy.'
At any rate, I was going then through for leading seaman, and I thought to meself, wel, I wanted to finish me course while I had everything fresh in me mind and I said, 'I'd like to write home to my people first to let them know.' He said, 'That's alright, when you are ready come back and see me.'
So when I finished me course I went back and told him that I'd go through the operation - (inaudible) Caulfield Hospital - I had the operation for hernia - I got another for piles down in Canterbury Hospital.
You poor boy. And they demobbed you, but you came back up here though, didn't you? You came back up to Sydney, didn't you?
Yes, I was on the Cerberus, went round to Portsea Quarantine (Station), round to South Australia, and then Port Germein - where's Port Germein?
Oh, that's over in South Australia, isn't it? - yes, South Australia.
South Australia, yes, it was more or less out station out there, we were doing patrols out there. Then what did I do? I forget now - how did I get back on the Tingarra?
Yes, I saw on your papers that you came back on the Tingarra.
The Tingarra, yeah. As a matter of fact I was quartermaster on the Tingarra ...
That's stores.
... with the routine and things like that. Usually you've got to be back on board ship about four hours beforehand, but being good boys we used to come back about half an hour beforehand.
Goodness, that's cutting it fine.
Another thing, I was quartermaster there when Garcia - lieutenant Garcia - he was the commander of the Tingarra and more or less in charge of the boys. He rang through one day and he said, 'I want to speak to Leading Seaman Freeman' - my opposite number, quartermaster, his name was Freeman, he was a Joe Freeman and I was Harold Freeman - Harry he used to call me. I more or less pulled his leg, I said, 'Which Freeman do you want?' He said, 'Is that Joe Freeman? - the man who was on the Sydney with me.' I was more or less pulling his leg. At any rate, I forget now what it was over, but then he said, 'The man from the Sydney.'
The warrant officers on there, they used to have these classes that would go ashore. This Warrant Officer Street, he put himself off ...
(Break in interview)
Well, this chap Street, on the Tingarra, he used to put himself as Captain Street. Somebody rang up for Captain Street; I said, 'We haven't got a Captain Street - you've got to watch that warrant officer.' At any rate, he got to hear about it and I was then put onto a draft of the Brisbane, I never lasted any longer than that.
Oh, I see.
That was Street, he was a warrant officer on the Tingarra for the boys.
For the lads, yeah.
He put himself as Captain Street, I put him in.
Well, when they demobbed you, they trained you, didn't they?
Mm?
They trained you for another job, didn't they?
Yes, I went through vocational training as a motor body builder. Then in Kent Street - wait a minute - I forget now what street it was - but we'd go through the motor body building. Motor body in those days was different altogether than today.
That was 1920s, wasn't it?
Yeah. You'd go through the motor body building and then you were ready to go to a full qualified body builder. You'd be assessed about every three months, your ability, and we used to ... and I was put out to [Pedacklies] opposite Randwick Racecourse. We'd get these in from America, the [Hupmobiles] - remember the Hupmobile car?
My husband would.
They were in these big crates, the head and stern on these big crates. The panel beaters would undo all the things and everybody would be ready there to let them down on either side. And in there there was each body ... the Hupmobiles (inaudible) on those and you'd pick up all the different parts and you'd get them and take them back to your bench. You'd put a requisition in for a packet of screws - three quarters, eights, screws - and you'd take the wheels - there'd be four wheels strapped on the ... the motor body builder was a wooden part of it and the panel beaters would get all the things to assemble the cars.
In those days we'd have the bottom side - not the bottom plate - we'd put those on the chassis and use these G-clamps. You'd put them on these chassis and you'd get the bottom plates and the thins for the mudguards, put that on.
All the different parts of the vehicle.
Yeah. And in the studs for the doors, the scuttle, they'd have the hinges on there, and just put your pillar against that, with a bit of packing in between to fill the space between the door and the chassis. You'd put the screws on the bottom side, it would be cut out on the bottom side so there'd be ... from there, and come out here like that. And then you'd put on your mudguards, put that on there - and you'd put your pillars on, that's for the doors to hang on, then the panel beaters would put the back panel on, but we used to panel the doors. We'd get a piece of panel, about that wide, and nail them onto that framework. Then you'd go down and get your panel for the doors - covers as we used to call them, dividers - and run round over the edge of these bits of panels we'd have tacked on the door. And then we'd have to put a cramp on there, you'd turn that over and put them in like that, and they'd be for your doors.
That's a bit different to your career in the Navy.
Different altogether, yeah.
Well, I think we might call a stop there because you've been going for so long, it's been terrific. Thank you very much.
That's alright.
END OF TAPE TWO - SIDE B - END OF INTERVIEW
06/02